Hope in Hard Times and Purpose Over Popularity

Hope in Hard Times and Purpose Over Popularity

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SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello everyone, welcome to the discussion today on mindset changing discussions on a mindset sport. And today our discussion topic is going to be hope in hard times and purpose of our popularity. Afu, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:19

It's an honor to be back. I'm so excited. And today's episode is particularly engaging. I will be talking about something that everyone has endured, trying to cling on to hope in difficult times. So let's get started.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Excellent, excellent, Afu. And as you've rightly said it today, we are diving into something that is very close to our hearts, which is hope in hard times and purpose over popularity. Because let's face it, for those of you who are joining in today, I believe we all go through tough moments and times when we feel uncertain, when we feel discouraged or even lost. And today's world where popularity sometimes like seems to define success, staying hopeful and purposeful can feel like swimming against the current. So a foo. Now, um, let's get straight to um the discussion, which is especially for young people like you, it can feel like if you are not trending, uh you are not winning. But we want to talk about how to keep your purpose alive, even when life gets hot or when you feel invisible. So, what says you?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

I think that's a very good topic. And I believe that, like you said, you know, sometimes you're working, you're doing your very best, but you feel unrecognized. However, what we have to realize is that you don't do something that's good for the sake of being recognized. You do it because it's the correct thing to do. And to add on to that, if you're feeling like unnoticed, then just keep on persevering because eventually one day you will get noticed, and that accumulation of the work and that perseverance and resilience will be able to enhance your story. So, to the people who are watching who feel stuck, just remember aspire to inspire. And when you do inspire, your trail record and your originality and your genuity will be able to shine through.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

I love that, and your ingenuity will be able to shine through, and that's a very, very important perspective, Afu, because I believe that a lot of people, especially young people today, um, may not uh sometimes understand that they have what it takes, even though they may not be getting it at the moment. And so what you've said is quite very right. And so let's unpack this together. Um, we are two generations apart, right? So, but with one message, which is hope is stronger than hype. So now let me ask you this, Afu, uh, which is we are living in a digital world, especially young people, you are H Mate, classmates, living in this fast-paced digital world. What do you um do? Or what do you think? What do you think hard times uh are actually causing young people? Or if I could put it differently, is this fast-paced digital world uh is considered by many because if they don't trend, then they feel that they are not winning. So, what does that mean for your peers and for those who are like yourself?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And I think that it's very important to distinguish between the digital world which we're currently living in, and now currency, it's not how many things you can go buy at the grocery store, it's how many likes you get on your Instagram post. And a lot of people feel that if they don't get a certain amount of likes or they're not involved in the latest trend, then they're not quote unquote at par. And it can manifest in many different ways. It can be amongst a friend group, maybe you don't have the latest shoes, or even on a digital, on a grander scale scale, on a macro scale. For example, you're posting something, you're posting how to sew videos, and they're not going as viral as someone doing TikTok dances, right? Two completely different things. And everyone has their own unique strengths. And once you tap into that and you have that passion and you have that resolve to really solve a challenge in your community, then you'll be able to navigate the different storms and the different seasons of social media trends.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

I like that. Very, very important perspective that you're bringing up there. And I think this is uh quite very, very instrumental because now what you have said is quite very, very um realistic. But what I would like to understand is that, as you have beautifully said it, um for people, especially young people, hard times can mean pressure, uh, pressure to fit in, especially now, pressure to get good grades, pressure to look perfect, pressure to be successful earlier. Because a lot of people want early success, as they say. But sometimes it's comparing ourselves to others online, which put a lot of pressure, and this is causing a lot of mental health, especially for young people. You see everyone's highlights, and you start feeling like you are behind, and it can make you feel anxious or hopeless, even if things are going okay. So uh that was a very important point. So, now from what you have said, do you think that people, especially the elderly ones, are doing good or enough to be able to reverse this kind of um behavior that may be hurting each and everyone, not only the young and the old, but everybody? And if so, what do you think we can be able to do?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

I think that the way to navigate this crisis, as I can call it, because people from all segments of the population, it's it comes down to the individual, because you can't tell people, stop posting the highlights of your life, because that's what social media is initially and fundamentally intended for. What we have to do is look and introspect about what makes us unique and capitalize on what makes us unique in our passions, because that passion will be able to guide you, like I said previously, in the most tumultuous of times. And for us, we must realize that our own journey and success is not linear. Success looks different for each and every person, and everyone has their own goals and unique aspirations. So we must look internally and find what makes us unique and continue to capitalize on it and continue to turn it into a way to help and benefit others. When we look externally, it's always good to gather in information and inspiration, but we cannot use other people's success as a benchmark for our own unique and personal journeys.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

I like that. We cannot use other people's um benchmark uh to apply to ourselves, and that is where the problem comes in. So if you look at the world today and especially across the developing world and Africa, comparison seems to be like to me, uh not only an enema of uh retrogression, but sometimes it actually makes people feel limited. So, what do you think could be done to ensure that people cannot become so limiting to themselves just because they are seeing this virtual display of some hard things they thought they could have had, or some hard things they think they are missing?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, I think that's definitely a very valid point. And it's very unfortunate to see because you'll see people, there's a lot of self-selection when it comes to things like awards, jobs, etc. For example, if somebody is very qualified, let's say for a job application, because they've seen other people's successes, they may minimize their own success and feel that they may not have a competitive application. When in reality, their application might have been among the most competitive, right? And we see these examples manifest in different forms, whether it's scholarships, applications, jobs, or even just networking and interacting with peers, the competent. And I think to answer your question, what we must do, and the way that it is perpetuating itself in society, it's in all forms. So we must try to mitigate it from all forms, introspectively, but also digital literacy is also very important. For example, understanding that social media at the core point, at the nucleus of social media, is showing your best life, which in theory, there's nothing wrong with it. However, we have to realize the effects, and everyone has felt those effects in one way or another. So, to summarize, we must understand that not everything we see on social media is 100% transparent. Yes, that person may have achieved those results, but you don't know the blood, sweat, and tears that have come in to achieving what we now see as a highlight. So we must look introspectively, but also promote digital literacy, media literacy, so that everyone can understand that success is not linear and to stay, quote unquote, in your own journey and own lane towards individual and communal success.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

I like that. Very, very important. I think this is quite a very strong um advice, not just to those who are young, but to each and everyone. I think comparison is actually one of the most um dangerous uh aspects of life that needs to be actually looked into very carefully. Like they usually say, we all have different lens, right? And you need to stay on your lane. And staying on your lane also provides an opportunity for you to showcase your skills. Now, let's get to that dimension of skills. There is this um attitude sometimes for both young and old, that um things need to be done. And that's okay, things need to be done by everybody, not just by certain people, right? And what that means is that each and every one of us have innate abilities to be able to do something. Learning to sew, learning to uh clean the hearts, learning to read, learning to speak, learning to do things that can all progress us forward. What says you from the perspective of the attitude of sometimes many people, young or old, start with the sentence, I cannot do it. Isn't that disabling? And if so, how can this be reversed?

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah, I think 100% we need to start thinking from a solutions-oriented perspective. Because everyone, we all know that there are challenges. We see them every single day. And challenges are a part of society, unfortunately, and a part of life. Also quite unfortunate. But what can we do? That's the question that we should start asking. Instead of why instead of why us, why are we facing these? Yes, it's unfortunate, yes, it's sad, and yes, it's a harsh reality, but we must introspect and figure out what we can do to solve the challenges that face us all. For example, let's say you're very skilled at cleaning and you see an issue with pollutants in your society. What you could do, maybe develop those skills and collaborate with people who know the scientific and entrepreneurial side of cleaning supplies and figure out a way to develop biodegradable cleaning supplies or biodegradable sponges. These are all things that may seem small, but through the aspect of community and transparency, we can be able to develop. So, like I've mentioned previously, it starts with you asking the question, how can I leverage a skill? And if you don't have a skill yet, that's okay. You can develop one. It doesn't necessarily have to be, you don't have to be a top researcher or anything like that. Even something as simple as sewing, carpentry, um, entrepreneurial skills, even the gift of public speaking, these are all unique skills that can help us contribute to the problem that face us all. So instead of thinking why me, think what can I do.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I like that. Instead of thinking why me, think what can I do? And what can I do now is our next um aspect of conversation, which is what can I do and what am I doing? It are completely two different things, but they adjoin uh at a heap. What what what can I do is one step. What am I doing is another. What will I do is another. So don't you think that saying is easy? As many will say, it's easier said than done. What can I do seems not to be the most difficult part. What am I doing now that I can orientate seems to be the most difficult part. And that takes me to the point of effort. Effort seems to be seen through the lens of punishment. Why is that attitude proliferating now more than effort being seen as the tool to be utilized to achieve what we don't have? Let's say you come back from school and there are plates in the sink, they say, watch those plates. Oh, I'm tired. I I don't I don't want to do it now. Oh, they say read. And if you don't read, you can't pass and say, No, I don't want to read, I want to relax. Why is effort seen as punishment when in reality it is the fuel to success?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

That's definitely relevant in today's society, and I like how you provided a plethora of examples ranging from simple house chores all the way to um academic success. And think of it this way: you a car can't start without whether it's fuel or now charging your car with the rise of EVs. A car cannot start without an energy source in it. That's the main objective. Same thing. Success cannot start without an energy. You can't expect to go from zero to a hundred without putting in the correct steps. And like I say all the time, success is not an elevator, success is a staircase journey. And what I mean by that is what we must do is yes, it is hard work to put in effort. Yes, you probably won't like the effort in the process. However, the end goal through that passion and through that drive for communal solutions, I guarantee you, you will 100% like the outcome of helping your community and also leveraging your own skills, developing your own skills, which can then be turned into a lens for social entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Exactly. And uh that's a very good point. But given the fact that without effort we cannot achieve, why do we then get reminded of what we need to do? So let me take innovative volunteerism here, which is a tool that everybody can leverage, which is very simple. How do you look at yourself and see what you don't have, and then try to get it so that you can turn a challenge into an opportunity? Let's take, for example, we all produce waste from our homes, right? That organic waste, those banana peelings, those granotes peelings? We put them into a container. But do you know that that is actually a business where you can turn that into bar fertilizer to replace chemicalized fertilizer, or you can turn it into bar gas to replace charcoal? Fine. We are not born with these skills and not everybody study environmental science. But the question should be: can anybody who study physics, mathematics, biology, English literature, economics, ETC learn this skill? The answer is yes. But you need to voluntarily volunteer yourself to do it. So the problem becomes voluntarily volunteering self to help that mother who slides and falls down in a community to open that car door for someone. And now that takes me now to empathy and kindness. What role do you think empathy and kindness is missing to play or could play to make the world a better place?

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah, and I think before I answer that, I want to touch on the question or the statement that you had before about how you have to volunteer yourself.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Opportunities, they may come, they may go, but you must, it starts with you. And when the mountain doesn't come to you, you come. You go to the mountain. Exactly. And I'd like to provide a personal example because I am a workshop leader at a local community center in my municipality. And I reached out to them because I saw a gap that there was peer mentorship, but there wasn't peer-to-peer mentorship. And the mentorship was not encompassing skills for the future like AI, sustainability, entrepreneurship, goal setting. And through that, I was able to develop a position and to be able to excel and to mentor young people, mentor children about the use of AI, sustainability, eco-business, social entrepreneurship, and Earth Day. And this would not have happened if I did not leverage my skills, which were sewing and my passions for sustainability and entrepreneurship. And without that, I would not have been able to develop the skills and even the courage, because when I was getting interviewed, they asked, What can you bring, what can you bring you a unique perspective on? And by developing those skills, you'll then be able to develop that confidence to be able to share your value. And once you're able to share your value, that's when real communal impact begins. And to answer the second half of the question, I think it's especially important kindness and empathy. Because through kindness, you're able to develop good rapport. And through empathy, you're able to feel what other people feel and to develop a global mindset and to critically think on the different ways a solution can be formed. And through empathy, you may be able to gather a solution because not everything created equally. Maybe a solution that works in one area of the world may not be quite fitting for another. So by hearing different perspectives and being willing to learn is something that will be able to propel your journey exponentially.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

That's that's very, very beautiful. Now you've touched the aspect of empathy and uh kindness very nicely. And um, there is uh a point that um Honorable Zele says that I don't think comparing yourself to someone else is bad because everyone has to compare his or herself with someone better to know his or her level or status in life. And on that basis, I kindly ask you to please provide clarity on that. Yes, I think that's a very um important uh point uh that Honorable Zele has brought up. And I think this is uh an aspect of what would provide perspective, provide perspective. I think comparison is good only when it inspires you and makes you to live forward. But comparison from a negative perspective of trying to say, oh, I have to get there without necessarily having to put in the work is not good. So we are all inspired wherever we are by those who have gone ahead of us, and we cherish and admire those who are where they are doing what they do. Ummiring a mother in a village who can weave baskets, then the first step should be then to understand and get to know what are the steps of doing that. And that entails effort. And that to me is really an excellent attitude of learning from those who already know and try to understand also the failures they went through to be able to live forward. But comparison, trying to do it without understanding and thinking that you can leapfrog to it immediately, is where we find ourselves because then you get frustrated and then somehow get disenfranchised in the process. So comparison is good, but not comparison from the perspective that if A have this, I must have it tomorrow without understanding how A got to where he or she was. And that is what we are trying to discuss here. That it is not bad to have someone benchmark your lifestyle with or your progress with, but it is bad when you just want to do it because you've seen A or B doing it for the sake of doing it. Remember, in life, we all have different pathways, pathways in terms of our ability and ability to understand, ability to do what we can do, and that is why there is specialization and there is what is also called purpose and passion. Some people's passions are to teach young children. Like my passion is to guide youth so that at least they don't repeat the mistakes that some of us grew up uh making. That's passion. And then what is purpose? To see people succeed. And some people's passions are different. Some people's passions are to teach young children in school, some people's passions are just to give back to the community to help elderly people. So if somebody is trying to compare to help elderly people, and he or she doesn't even have the passion, he or she doesn't know what it takes, and he doesn't want to learn from the person who's already doing it, that to me is not comparison, it's competition. And so competition and comparison are two different things, and I think that is what and where social media sometimes try to push this, and people start to become competitive rather than learning from one another. And so to compare from a positive perspective and to learn through that is excellent, but to compare and want to compete without understanding how to move forward is what we think that uh needs to be corrected. Over to you, Afu.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yeah, I think just uh to piggyback off your point, you're 100% correct. And I think that, Honorable Zerl Lee, you really brought a different dimension, which we both really appreciate. And um, just to echo what uh Dr. Menang said, yeah, comparing yourself is not inherently a bad thing. Instead, it can be a good thing. For example, let's say you have a mentor or somebody who's gone ahead who got the degree you want, and maybe. In high school, or has had an opportunity that you would you're aiming to achieve one day, picking their brain and learning is something that is encouraged 100%. However, it becomes an issue when it makes you feel bad about yourself and it turns into competition. Because especially on social media, most of the time we don't see the entire process, we only see the end product. And what we must do is, like you said, we must, you know, be able to realize and discern when it's the product. And if you're really inspired, inquire about the process. And if the person's willing to share, then that's 100% a great example. Because when we think about it, mentorship in a sense is comparison, not necessarily, but there are people helping you to get to where the person is. So if we can expand that and compare from a positive perspective and not from a perspective of competition and quote unquote beating another person, then that's the aspect that we must be able to look at it first.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Absolutely. Excellent. And um, that was a very important point, Afu. Uh, so there is also the aspect to which I think we need to put trace on that at the moment, which is negative competition and positive competition. What do you have to say about that? Because I think Honorable Zell has brought up a very important point. I think we need to put trace on that. Do you think positive competition can be able to enhance progress, or do you think negative competition retrogrades progress? And if so, where should we be and what does it take, especially for the young people who sometimes and even the elderly uh leverage either of these uh to uh move forward but see themselves moving backwards over a full?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yeah, 100%. I think there's definitely a clear uh distinguished nature between positive and negative competition. An example of positive competition would be, let's say, you're in a sports team or in a class, and um, there's two people who are really they're very good at, let's just use math for an example. They're very good at mathematics. And let's say somebody gets an 100 on a math test and the other person gets a 95 on the math test, right? It's not necessarily that you want to be better than that person, but you use that person for you to improve, right? And by your success, it's also communal success, right? The teacher feels happy that students are achieving well, and you're able to develop a community of like-minded individuals. I'm gonna use the same example, but in a negative comparison. Let's say someone gets an 100 and you get a 95. The negative comparison could be you feeling so bad about yourself that the next time you sabotage them or you give them wrong notes. That's an example of negative competition, trying to elevate yourself at the expense of other people.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah, let me just tell you there. Um, try to elevate yourself at the expense of other people. Uh, and and by doing that, none of you go anywhere because then you pull down the person who is climbing and then you don't climb. Do you think, um, just as you transition to the next explanation, that that is something that is weakening society? And if so, how can we correct it?

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, 100%. And I think that there's an African proverb. I'm not sure if it's African in general or just a specific Cameroon one, but the loose translation, I'm not gonna say in direct pigeon because I'll butcher it, but the loose translation is. So in pigeon English, say there's someone better than you, carry their bags.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

That doesn't necessarily mean literally carry their bags, it means inquire, learn.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

So in pigeon English, in pigeon English, you said if person, if man pass you, carry bags, continue.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Exactly. So that doesn't necessarily mean literally carry their bag as they're entering their office. It means pick their brain, inquire, network, learn about their journey, and ask for their support on your own journey as well. And that's especially important because they're elevating, but also giving you a platform and giving you steps from what they've learned for you to also elevate. And the competition, like you mentioned, of bringing people down, it's very detrimental to today's society because no, how will anybody grow? Because the people who are growing, they're on their own pathway. But because of the negative aspect of competition and comparison, and even sometimes leading to jealousy, can bring other people, can just vex other people to a certain degree that they feel there's no other way for them to succeed than bring you down to their level. And that's something that's very unfortunate in today's society. So we must move to the first example of helping other people and also being curious rather than being jealous and rather than being angry at some success, being happy and celebrating each other's wins.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah, but afo let's let's get to this point. I I think you are touching a very important aspect. And I think the uh general understanding of uh comparison and competition, I mean it have uh been articulated uh to an extent. But this is the point here. There is also the let me just let this uh aspect, which I call it the devil's advocate, of the people who may be excelling, and somehow instead of benchmarking themselves to leverage humility to show that everybody can rise. That's a fact. The pathway to rising to the top is not just for the few, it's for everybody. And anybody can rise from anything he or she does. You can write, rise from just being an excellent cleaner, clean your home so much so that everybody can admire. You can rise just the way you dress, and you don't need to have a lot to dress in a way that is elegant and people can admire. But somehow, leveraging these tools in which will become excellent with some use it to provoke others, uh and and and that then creates sometimes an atmosphere whereby the benchmarking, so to speak, or the comparison from a positive energy becomes comparison from a negative energy, which now takes me to the point which I think we now need to in the second segment of this conversation, goes to the attitude of humility. And the attitude of humility in this case is do you think that arrogance and disrespect is becoming the norm? And if so, what is causing this?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, I think you brought up a really important point and um a very unique perspective as well, because a lot of people who, when they do succeed, they forget where they came from to an extent, and they um start to metaphorically stomp on people and use their success as a way to assert dominance rather than to build community. And I think that this happens because when you see on the media um people succeeding, like I said, you don't see the process, you just see the end result. So people believe that in order to show your success, you must flaunt solely the end result and kind of hide the process. And I think this must be mitigated because a community success is everyone's success. When someone else wins, it's not only their win, it's your win as well. It's it's a community win. And we must contributively collaborate so that everyone can bring their own unique skills for that said communal success. And through the rise of arrogance and the rise of um pomp, pomp, pompous natures that we're seeing among people, we must be able to stop that and realize that everybody starts from somewhere and some people may have inherent advantages than others, but that doesn't make them a better human being. What makes what it makes them it what makes them is their way of helping others. And if they choose to help others and choose to mentor others and choose to guide people who are coming after them, then that enhances them. But if they choose to not, then yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah, so this is the point here. So the aspect is that there is a cause uh of arrogance and there is a cause of uh disrespect, right? And when the sum total of this cause is never in a positive way. Now, what do you have to tell your generation uh that are watching this? Because your era is different, it's a digital era that is somehow moving with a speed that is unimaginable, and the acceleration of picking up maybe uh wrong attributes or wrong traits uh is happening at a rate in which many might not be able to phantom. We are generations, different generations, the 80s, the 70s, the 90s, the 2000s. Why do you have to tell those who are listening?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah, so in regards to building yourself and in regards to attitude, I think it's very important because, for example, you could be super duper good at something, but people may not still choose to select you for things simply because of the way you go about and your demeanor, right? Right. And you see, especially these days, we find that a lot of people and a lot of jobs and a lot of applications, a core component is integrity, moral integrity, the way you treat others and the way you treat your surroundings, the empathy and kindness we mentioned previously. So as you level up and as you achieve success, it's very important to remember to stay integral, have values, and act on those values in a way that best reflects you and your community. Because a lot of people, when they go into certain spaces, they're not only representing themselves, they're representing their entire demographic. So we must keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Excellent afo. Over to you now, since we are halfway gone, but I think uh there is a comment here, which is um right.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, so Bartan says, I think he just summarized his core um understandings of this, which is awesome. He says positive competition, number one, encourages innovation, drives creativity to progress. Number two, boosts performance, motivates individuals or teams to improve. Number three, fosters growth, promotes learning and self-improvement. Number four, enhances teamwork, encourages collaboration and healthy rivalry. I think the base is in the aforementioned points. It's very much essential for the position competition exhibited in today's society. Position competition also leads to constructive competition.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Right now, uh Honorable Zella says if you compare yourself to someone else in a positive direction and get to know that the person is doing better than you, is it possible to go closer to the person to help you add if yesha and if no why? Go with that and then add.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Of course, yeah. So I think that just think of networking. Like networking is literally just seeing people who are in position where you want to be and reaching out. That's essentially what it is. So, yes, 100%. It's great to understand what people are doing who are in positions where you want to be and go about it from a constructive lens. Don't be like, hi, um, please help me with XYZ. I need a job at XYZ company that you're working for. Look at I've seen your skills, I've seen what you've achieved, and I'm wondering if you could guide me through the process and tell me about a few things that you've learned. And that's especially important because you don't want to quote unquote bombard individuals. You want to genuinely seem insightful and seem curious because you should be curious. And to go about that, you must be able to understand what you bring to the table so that once you are in that discussion with the individual, you don't seem lost and confused, you seem like an individual substance, which we all are and which we all should strive to be.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah, you see why I'm uh smiling is you mentioned what uh you or she brings to the table, which is really a conversation that is funny. So that's why I'm laughing. So this is the point I think you've touched a very important point. So this this is the the the question from Honorable Zela have two parts. You've touched all of them in a very nice way. But this is what I want to say. My grandmother used to tell us that if you like what someone is doing, join the person, not to ask the person to help you, to tell the person this is what you have, and you want to support the person in whatever gap he or she is facing. And that way, so if you see her sweeping the compound, don't come and tell her, I want you to come and sweep my compound. Get a broom and join her in sweeping, and you may not sweep well, and she will then teach you how to sweep better. That is the kind of networking that is needed today. And so, to your question, which is uh you asked to um you said to know that somebody is doing better than you, is it possible to go closer to the person to help you out? Yes, go closer to the person, but not with the mentality of helping out, but with the mentality of you assisting the person. So, my grandmother always used to tell us this do not come for anybody to help you just because you think that person knows better than you or have what it takes. Come with the attitude of supporting the person so that the two of you can progressively go together because everybody has a gap. And that gap you might not know you have a skill for it, and that way you'll be collaborating, not becoming just helpful. Because when you you reach at let's take Dangote, who is the richest man in the African continent. Imagine somebody just goes up to Dangote and says, Dangote, can't help me now. No, you'll be dismissed immediately. If the person package his or herself and says, This is what I can do, you don't need to understand anything about what the business is about, but you come with this is what I can do. I'm a teacher. If I'm a teacher, you say this is what I can do. But maybe in your foundation there is something that teaching can do, and this is the area I'm working on. You must say, Oh, good, go and volunteer in my school. That's already you've already created an engagement point, not through the mindset of um uh demanding what we call entitlement mentality that I must have help. So I think the word help is good, but I think it's it consitude of somebody having to give you something without you having worked for it. You must not work for it. But to foster collaboration is bringing uh uh uh aspects that you have skills, talents to complement one another. Because what I learned in my entire life is that not everybody does not have everything that we may think they have. People have gaps, and so coming in to complement those gaps will create and foster partnerships. So if somebody is better than you, engage the person, but always pitch yourself from what you have. What you have may not be what they need, but you will see that oh, and they may know somebody who can utilize your skills, and that way you already have a connection from the person, not from a burden dimension, but from a strength dimension, and that takes me now to the uh point, uh, which is that uh and I'll hand over to you now as we think we have about 14 or uh 15 minutes to start running up, which is that um as vibes says we need to fill the gap, right? Um, vibes with um pet VP, she said that's right, filling the gap. Indeed, it's filling the gaps, and I think uh uh spa says it's necessary to walk alongside the person and consider he or she your mentor, exactly, if need be. You could directly ask the person or volunteer too. Amazing, beautiful summary. So over to you.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah, I think it it could not have been better said. You have to a hundred percent don't pit yourself as a liability, pitch yourself as an asset, even if you need the person's assistance or want to pick their brain on something, you can't pitch yourself from oh, I'm struggling, XYZ. You have to show what you can offer. And even though, like you said, it may not be exactly what they're looking for at that moment, they'll engage with you, mark my words, from a different perspective, because they know that you have expertise in at least one area, and they may know someone who needs your expertise in that one area. I just wanted to add that. And Vibe Pet, she also mentions filling the gap is also quite important. Well said by everyone. Thank you so much for your engagement. So, my question for you and for the viewers is how have you found that collaboration, collaborating with others within a team, have you found that instances within within that teamwork has been leading to competition? How do you manage things that are supposed to achieve to a common goal turn into people fighting for individual interests rather than communal interests?

SPEAKER_01 38:28

At individual interest. Yeah, very interesting question, Ashwan. I think the the the reality is human beings are generally competitive beings from family level to community level to uh national level to regional level and to global level, which is a good thing. So competition on itself is not a bad thing, as we said earlier, and that is why collaboration, as you've mentioned, have humans in it that comes with different threats, right? The character threads, good, some come with different skills. And in those skill sets, the only way you can be able to progress is to combine and make them to work together. So your question of in collaboration, have there been instances whereby there is competition? Of course, it has to be. If it's not, then that is not a human uh endeavored environment. And you have, as a leader, leverage that competition as a strength, not as a weakness. Because he who is excellent and wants to excel means he or she has passion, but needs some elements to complement that so that others can benefit. There is nothing wrong for anybody to shine. Shining is actually an ingredient that propels people to do more. And the way you do as a leader in a team where there are such people, it's you leverage them as a blessing, but then make them to teach those who don't know. Because one of the things I've learned is that not everybody has the same skills and talents. And if we try to box them and think they have the same, then you are limiting people's potentials and people's abilities. Create an environment where those who know better than others and want to shine also teach others. Then that way you will be complementing others to learn, and then you cross-hyberdize and bring them together. You will have a very solid team. Not everybody knows how to write, not everybody knows how to talk, not everybody has the ability to be able to express themselves the way B C D will do. But if you combine those who cannot express but they are good in writing, and you take those who can express and they're not good in writing, and you combine them together, you end up having a product that is super excellent. So, to answer your question in simple terms, collaboration comes with individuals who have different skills, and there is always competition in them, but you don't leverage that competition from a negative dimension, leverage it as a strength, not as a weakness. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

That was that was amazing. And um, we have gotten a few comments uh from Bifa Pet. This is very important, what she just says. Pitch yourself as an asset, not a liability. Absolutely, that's especially important. And I know we're just we're saying this, and some people may be thinking, Oh, these people are just saying these things, but how have they actually enacted it into their life? So I'd like to ask you how have you enacted these principles into your own life, both professionally, academically, socially, etc.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Which principles exactly?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

The principles of collaboration, the principles of filling the gap in society, which we've seen through the principles of innovative volunteerism in Abafasa. So please extend.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yeah, excellent, beautiful question. So the the first starting point is that as from an individual level, you need to understand that you cannot know everything. And I think that first acceptance is part of humility. That a child of five and child of six, a child of ten knows things you might not know, even though you are older than them. Because in their era and their interactions nowadays, they are in what we call the dot-com and digital space generation. So definitely there is bound to be that aspect that young people might know, or even elderly people might know. So the first approach is to have that humility to accept that I know, but I don't know everything. And then that then forces you to be a good listener. And that good listening is actually one of the first characteristics of being a good leader. You have to listen. And listening doesn't mean you listen only to your equals or your peers. No, you listen to everybody, regardless of age group, regardless of educational level, and regardless of status in society, because each and everyone in their own right is a king and a queen. Let me repeat that each and everyone in their own right is a king and a queen. And what this means is they have something that others do not have. And because they have that uniqueness in them, you have to leverage it with the same strength you leverage for a minister, a president, and a common mother in a community that does something that might not be recognized by others. That said, it then means from my lesson, because these are the lessons I'm giving you. So from the lessons I've learned is that when you have that attitude of humility and of kindness and of empathy, to listen to each and everyone, and then to know that there are gaps you can pick, then you grow very quickly, and then you can be able to win very quickly, because then you will leverage and then you stand on the shoulder shoulders of giants. That's the first part. The second part is the attitude of doing it first. So in collaboration, you can't get people to collaborate when you yourself cannot collaborate with people. So you have to live by example. And the best way to collaborate is what I said earlier listening. You have to listen to people to understand what they know and you don't know, and then bring what you know so that you people connect in the middle. So I always use this um example of connecting, meeting, connecting in the middle. That two rivers that come and join into an ocean, they're all coming with different water. Whether it is trubberies, estuaries, ETC from small rivers, big river, once they join and get into an ocean, it's all an ocean with the same water. So the mix there. So the question is what are you bringing to mixed in the middle so that we have a collective product or a collective result? But most of the time, if you now come and you are not showing what you bring, what you bring is not money. I think a lot of people usually misconstrue value to be thinking it's money. No, you might just bring your eloquence on something, you might just bring your knowledge of something you learn even in primary school. You might just bring something you've been doubting yourself. And by the way, you may explain it, and it could be a gap that somebody has been wondering, oh, this is an idea I've been thinking, but with you, you are doubting. So that ability to be able to leverage other strengths and stand on their shoulders to then do what will collectively produce a result is important. And the last part and lesson I've learned is you can't do it alone. That's why the attitude of leveraging on the strengths, especially of young people and of our elders who have gone ahead of us and learn. Because what I learned in my entire life is that anybody who has never failed is a very dangerous human being. Because failure is the ingredient that is needed for any human being to succeed. If you don't fail, you cannot learn. If you don't learn, you cannot know. And if you don't know, you cannot progress. And so when you are leveraging on strength, also pick on experiences. Because experiences cannot come only from what worked. Focus more on what felt and how they overcame it. And in that way, within collaboration, you will notice that you are killing the spirit of competition and enriching the spirit of collaborativeness, but more from enriching euros value and experiences, and then you will get the outcome.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Awesome. I think what will definitely resonate with a lot of people that failure is the ingredient to success. And like we say, no pain, no gain. But also when you fail, you know that that may not be the correct way to go about it. Then you start to find more innovative ways to go about it. Absolutely. I think you brought a very positive and very refreshing dimension. And those are all the questions I have. So back to you.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Yeah, thanks a lot, Afro. I think um we need to wrap up, but we cannot wrap up without me asking your perspective on this. And I think it's we always talk about this, and and we will keep talking about it. So um a lot of people, regardless of where they are, let me say in the African continent, especially young people, Africa with a population of over 60%, being young people under the age of uh 35. And in the coming years, that number is only going to increase. Unemployment levels are high. Uh yet the youth are resilient and the youth are actually entrepreneurial and innovative and energetic. But they always talk about youth dividend, youth dividend, youth dividend. You cannot have a dividend when you have not invested in. My question is simple, and please answer it in a very simplistic way that a young person who is listening can be able to understand. There is always the assumption that we can get what we want without putting in the effort. So we will say youth dividend, Africa youth dividend. But we are not investing in the youth to have the dividend. You cannot have a dividend where you're not invested. What do you think a young person listening now can do in his or her own right, given where he or she is coming from, having nothing, but can do something that can transform and change his or her life starting tomorrow and be practical and realistic?

SPEAKER_00 47:32

That's a really uh amazing question. And to answer that in the most simplistic way possible, it starts with you. Start by quickly figuring out what your passion is. It doesn't necessarily have to be quick, but learn what makes you you and what you have a profound interest in, and start to figure out ways to capitalize on that and to learn about it. It can be by watching YouTube videos, by watching TikTok, which I know most people have, by finding a person in your community and offering to assist them. A bunch of things can be done for you to start building your own quote unquote.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Let me come in there, bro. Uh, and the why I'm coming in there is just so we have this free flow for young people to understand. So when you say just be you, what does that mean? Because we are already we wherever we are, right? And so a young person listening is you think, and and those are very punchy words that are important. That's why I want you to crack it down just a bit. When you're telling a young person, maybe in a community in southern Togo or northern uh Nigeria or southern uh uh Liberia, ETC, what do you mean by just be you?

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Yeah, I think that's a very good question because a lot of the time when people hear these quote unquote cliches, they're like, is there any depth to them? And yes, and yes, there are there is a depth to it. And what I mean by just be you is find out what makes you unique. It could be your gift for storytelling, it could be your handwork, it could be your voice, it could be your writing, it could be, for example, your athletic abilities, it could be anything that when people think of, for example, Danielle or think of Dr. Menang, they think of that specific thing. So capitalize on what makes you unique, capitalize on your unique skill set because every gift matters, and find tangible ways to do it, whether it's looking online, going to help out, or being an apprentice or an assistant, or even learning from teachers in school.

unknown 49:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

These are all practical ways where you can be able to turn your passion into a dividend for success. Because as you continue to improve, you will continue to see results.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

I like that. So this is, and I like I love that we are bringing this to uh an end, but ending with this aspect. So there is always this question. I think in our previous discussions, we have touched on this, which is a lot of people start off with the statement that okay, he or she can say that because they are better off. How do you debunk this? Not from a perspective of trying to chastise, but trying to showcase what you keep missing by thinking that we are not better off, right? That even in the worst of circumstances, sometimes that is the foundation that prepares us to leapfrog to somewhere better someday. So, do you think that disenfranchisement maybe limits people? And if so, how do you then debug that in a very practical, simple, nice way?

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Yeah, and I think before I answer that, there's a comment from Spartan, which actually links into the point that I want to make. Um, she says it starts with oneself understanding his or her purpose. By understanding your purpose, you won't be misplaced and you will feel fulfilled. That's an awesome point, and that links to what I'm saying. No matter where you come from, no matter your social economic status, no matter the challenges and adversity you faced, each and every person has a unique purpose. And each and every person has a vocation, something that can be able to push them through when things get hard. Everyone has their own unique calling. And it doesn't, your calling, you won't get a higher calling because you're of a higher socioeconomic status. Everybody has hard times, and everyone through these hard times can be able to determine their purpose. And people who are saying, for example, it's difficult, yes, it is difficult, it is hard, and nobody's negating that, but we must turn that adversity into fuel to propel. Because if you've already experienced resilience, for example, unfortunately not eating three square meals a day, you know how hardship feels like, and that can help you develop empathy and resilience so that let's say your business endeavor doesn't go your way, you know not to give up and to keep persevering. So turn whatever challenge you have into a unique opportunity to set yourself apart.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Excellent. I think that's a very beautiful articulation. The reality is that nothing comes on a plateau of goal. Resilience is built, it's not given. And resilience comes through adversity and failure. Uh, it it's built through those processes of overcoming adversity, overcoming failure, learning. And that is the first ingredient to be able to survive and strive, especially in a world like today, where there will be a lot of upheavals around so many things, and people with that resilience will shut down very quickly. And that is not a solution. Now that takes me now to the last part, which we are now, as we run up, uh, we have eight minutes to go uh at the top of the hour, is that the attitude of understanding these aspects are not taught in school. So, do you think it is high time to somehow educationalize some of these attributes that are far fetched from the uh mainstream educational curriculum? And if so, how do you think this can be practicalized from your own experience as a student?

SPEAKER_00 53:00

That's a very good point, but I like to debunk the fact that education isn't only found in the four walls of a classroom. For example, our discussion right now, for some, it's a form of entertainment, for some, it's a form of education, and that's what we'd like it to be: educating other people on the power of you and the power of innovative volunteerism. So learning these skills and learning how to be resilient or think that yes can be taught in school, but have to be propelled by us. Because if we don't share our knowledge and share our skills, how will they be passed down? The art of storytelling and the art of being able to say things in plain terms, because not everyone, unfortunately, has the access to traditional education. And if we were to implement this in traditional education, what components of it would it be in? Would it be in primary, secondary, or tertiary education, or all three? But no matter where it goes within the formal education construct, it must be embedded in us so that we can teach other people about it and help our communities grow. Because when a community knows something, the whole world will then know it. And by a community to know something, it starts with us. So to briefly answer your question, I think that it starts with oneself. Once you understand and you share it with other people, then we can spread the knowledge of perseverance and the power of innovative volunteerism.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

And the aspect of sharing is a very important point. Do you think people share enough? And if so, you are the founder of Innovative Uh Mindset Initiative. What is that about? And those who are listening, what can you tell them in very crispy terms what this means?

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Yeah, so why are we giving people's mindset? The first part of your question is do people share enough? I think it depends. And that sounds very vague, but what I find sometimes, which is really unfortunate, is if somebody knows something that is helping them actively aid their lives, they're less keen to share it than some general information or then misinformation. I find that misinformation spreads like wildfire in comparison to information that can- Why is it so?

SPEAKER_01 55:13

Why is it so? Why does misinformation spread like wildfire?

SPEAKER_00 55:17

I think to be honest, I think it's what some people like to hear. I think that the dramatification and the popularity of it and the overall hype is something that people want to know about and to people to feel like they're in the loop. I think that's the main reason for it. But getting back to the point, I feel that a lot of the time, information, for example, like an opportunity or information or the process towards people's success, it's generally not as shared or knowledge or wisdom. And to answer the second part of your question, innovative mindset initiative, innovative mindset initiative is something that I created that enables people to share their stories and enables people to learn from the concepts of innovative volunteerism and social entrepreneurship to be able to propel their own visions. And I do this through sewing, through these podcasts, and through mentoring young people at local community centers. These are all ways where people can learn outside of formal education the power of their voice and the power of leveraging your own skills to solve contemporary challenges.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

Excellent. Very important point. Now, as we round up, Afu, um, what is your last word and uh what would you say uh is the big takeaway from this discussion?

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Awesome. I think that first of all, thank you everyone for watching. We really appreciate your insights and it's been so engaging. These sessions are not nearly as engaging without your participation, so we really appreciate that. But to get to the quote unquote meat and potatoes of this discussion, we must realize that true strength and resilience and true success is not born overnight. You cannot take the elevator to success. You must climb the stairs. And by leveraging your unique purpose and your unique passions into a way to help your community and to help others, you can be able to thrive and to succeed on your own terms. And success is not linear. So remember, if you would like to see and compare yourself to others, remember that the process is generally not shown, only the product. So focus on building your own process so that when the product comes, you can be able to help and aid people, not from a perspective of treating them with liabilities, but adding their own assets to be able to build a community of learners.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

Right. I love that. The process is not only uh what is showcased, but the process is the core that gets us to the final product, which is the result. And so for all of you who have been listening, we will uh always come to share and of course exchange ideas as we've done today. But what I want you to do is to remember this every one of us has something to offer, but sometimes we'll forget that we have those innate abilities, those talents and skills that can fill gaps of people that we even look up to. And so anytime you approach anybody, always share what you have in you that sometimes you might be thinking that is not enough. It's always enough. We are the ones who limit ourselves to think that sometimes we don't have what it takes. Each and every one of us have what it takes. All you need is the confidence to be able to showcase it. And as you've listened from a fool, the articulation is that every one of us will face moments that will test our faith, our strength, and our sense of direction. But those moments don't define us, they refine us. I think that is the core point here. Tough times don't define us, they refine us. And so hope is not the absence of struggle, it is the decision to believe that something better is coming. And purpose, as we heard all along, is not about being noticed, it's about being useful. And usefulness is the core of us showcasing what we can do and supporting others so we meet in the middle. We heard about collaboration, but when we anchor our lives in compassion, in kindness, in empathy, collaboration becomes quite very, very easy. And so when we choose to lift others up as we rise, we create a kind of success that no fame or following can match. And so we should be able to always understand from that discussion that we've had today in hard times, let hope be our anchor, let purpose be our compass, let compassion guide our steps, and let positive competition sharpen our skills, and above all, as a four set, just be you. Until then, thank you very much for joining.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Okay, bye bye. Right.